(Originally written November 24, 2016 in Book 26)
Ion (Continued)
Plato
Socrates claims Ion has not mastered Homer, but is guided by a divine power. He is like a stone moved by a magnet.
Socrates compares the good poets to the Corybantes - priests of Cybele whom they worshipped with wild music and dancers.
A poet "is not able to make poetry until he becomes inspired and goes out of his mind and his intellect is no longer in him" (Plato, 26). Those operating from the intellect cannot write poetry.
Ion is a rahsode. Homer is a poet. Homer is used by a god to speak poetry. Thus, Homer is a representative. Ion is a representative of a representative.
Ion - "You see I must keep my wits and pay close attention to them: if I start them crying I will laugh as I take their money, bit if they laugh, I shall cry at having lost money" (Plato, 27).
The god is the magnet. He moves the first stone Homer. In doing so, Homer becomes like the magnet and moves the second stone, Ion. Ion then becomes like Homer and moves the audience. "The god pulls people's souls through all those wherever he wants" (Plato, 28).
Socrates ends the dialogue by forcing Ion to admit that it is preferable to to be thought of as someone having something to do with the divine than someone who does wrong. Because Ion would be one of the two in teaching Homer and not being a master of the profession called poetry.
Thursday, November 24, 2016
Wednesday, November 23, 2016
Ion (A)
(Originally Written November 23, 2016 in Book 26)
Two Comic Dialogues:
Ion and Hippias Major
Plato (Hackett, 1983)
Both Ion and Hippias Major are important early works dealing with Plato's ideas of poetry and beauty.
Ion is a raphsodie - a reciter of epic poems who performed at festivals and private events for hire. Ion recited the poems, but also explained them and in so doing proclaimed himself an expert in the knowledge they possess. This makes him a likely target for Socrates who goes around showing those who proclaim to be wise that they are unwise.
"Homer was revered in antiquity not merely as a maker of beautiful poems, but as a source of information (Woodruff, 6).
Socrates has very high standards for knowledge.
Knowledge is differentiated however by the Greek term techne - knowledge in a craft or professional knowledge.
Greek poetry claims to come from inspiration from the gods (muses). Both Homer and Hesiod claim inspiration in their works.
In the Greek mind, for a man to be successful he must have divine inspiration. That there were successful men proved inspiration. It is common place in the Greek world. "Inspiration is neither extraordinary nor supernatural in Homer's world" (Woodruff, 7).
Plato sees the poet's inspiration as the gods using the pet as a mere vessel. Poetry comes from a madness brought about by an interaction with the divine.
The man who tries to master poetry by techne alone will be out shined by "the poetry of madness".
But the idea of poetry coming from a divinely induced madness is false. Those who are mad cannot speak coherently, let alone produce poetry.
Why did Plato then put forth this theory? Possible reasons:
1. He is really trying to make an argument for its case.
2. He is attacking poetry
3. He is claiming that poets do not have knowledge when they produce poetry but that philosophers can translate the truth from poetic utterances to the public like priests can translate prophetic utterances made by the oracles who are possessed by the gods when they make said utterances.
Goethe thought Plato attacked poetry. The Renaissance thinkers preferred option one. Most modern scholars believe the third option is likely the best.
Plato does attack poetry, but he also enjoyed it, "we must not forget that the poetry Plato rejected in the Republic was something he deeply loved" (Woodruff, 9).
To possess Techne one must possess a mastery of all knowledge within a field. Ion knows Homer but does not have techne because he knows nothing but techne. Ion knows only through inspiration.
Ion is unable to distinguish between well made verses that are good because they are pleasing to the ear an well made verses because they are true.
Ion
Socrates calls Homer the best poet and the most divine.
Ion claims to be an expert on Homer, but not on the other poets.
Ion claims that while the poets discuss the some topics, Homer does it best.
Socrates forces Ion to admit that there is an art to poetry as a whole and because Ion cannot speak to it as a whole he speaks on Homer not from techne.
Two Comic Dialogues:
Ion and Hippias Major
Plato (Hackett, 1983)
Both Ion and Hippias Major are important early works dealing with Plato's ideas of poetry and beauty.
Ion is a raphsodie - a reciter of epic poems who performed at festivals and private events for hire. Ion recited the poems, but also explained them and in so doing proclaimed himself an expert in the knowledge they possess. This makes him a likely target for Socrates who goes around showing those who proclaim to be wise that they are unwise.
"Homer was revered in antiquity not merely as a maker of beautiful poems, but as a source of information (Woodruff, 6).
Socrates has very high standards for knowledge.
Knowledge is differentiated however by the Greek term techne - knowledge in a craft or professional knowledge.
Greek poetry claims to come from inspiration from the gods (muses). Both Homer and Hesiod claim inspiration in their works.
In the Greek mind, for a man to be successful he must have divine inspiration. That there were successful men proved inspiration. It is common place in the Greek world. "Inspiration is neither extraordinary nor supernatural in Homer's world" (Woodruff, 7).
Plato sees the poet's inspiration as the gods using the pet as a mere vessel. Poetry comes from a madness brought about by an interaction with the divine.
The man who tries to master poetry by techne alone will be out shined by "the poetry of madness".
But the idea of poetry coming from a divinely induced madness is false. Those who are mad cannot speak coherently, let alone produce poetry.
Why did Plato then put forth this theory? Possible reasons:
1. He is really trying to make an argument for its case.
2. He is attacking poetry
3. He is claiming that poets do not have knowledge when they produce poetry but that philosophers can translate the truth from poetic utterances to the public like priests can translate prophetic utterances made by the oracles who are possessed by the gods when they make said utterances.
Goethe thought Plato attacked poetry. The Renaissance thinkers preferred option one. Most modern scholars believe the third option is likely the best.
Plato does attack poetry, but he also enjoyed it, "we must not forget that the poetry Plato rejected in the Republic was something he deeply loved" (Woodruff, 9).
To possess Techne one must possess a mastery of all knowledge within a field. Ion knows Homer but does not have techne because he knows nothing but techne. Ion knows only through inspiration.
Ion is unable to distinguish between well made verses that are good because they are pleasing to the ear an well made verses because they are true.
Ion
Socrates calls Homer the best poet and the most divine.
Ion claims to be an expert on Homer, but not on the other poets.
Ion claims that while the poets discuss the some topics, Homer does it best.
Socrates forces Ion to admit that there is an art to poetry as a whole and because Ion cannot speak to it as a whole he speaks on Homer not from techne.
Tuesday, November 22, 2016
Apology (B)
(Originally written November 22, 2016 in Book 26)
Apology (Continued)
Plato
Socrates maintains that he has wronged no one and will not start now by wronging himself by offering a less evil penalty for his conviction that Meletus has (and is the customary practice of the court). Besides, he still isn't convinced death is a wrong at all. "Am I then to choose in preference to this something that I know very well to be an evil...?" (Plato, 39).
"The unexamined life is not worth living for men" (Plato, 39).
He sets his penalty at that which will not hurt him. Since he is poor he sets it at one mina of silver. But than sets it at 30 minas.
Socrates addresses those who sentenced him to death, stating that he would rather die after offering his manly and virtuous defense than survive by debasing himself and offering a defense that is full of emotive qualities.
He thinks it's wrong to avoid death in war or at trial at all costs.
It is easier to avoid death then wickedness: Socrates has caught by death but his accusers have been caught by wickedness. "They are condemned by truth to wickedness and injustice" (Plato, 40).
Socrates prophesies that by killing him they will not be able to live life unchallenged but will face more men like Socrates, and younger ones at that! They will test the men. "To escape such tests is neither possible nor good, but it is best and easiest not to discredit it others but to prepare oneself to be as good as possible" (Plato, 41).
Socrates tells the jurors who voted for his acquittal that death is not an evil; for if it was an evil the god who prevented Socrates from doing evil would have prevented him from saying that which got him sentenced to death.
Death is either nothingness or a relocating process where the soul goes to another place where he could converse and test good men and wise men.
"A good man cannot be harmed in life or in death, and that his affairs are not neglected by the gods" (Plato, 42).
The jurors who voted for death are only doing the will of the divine which is good; but, they are to be blamed because they intended harm.
Socrates' parting words to the jurymen who voted for acquittal: "I go to die, you go to live. Which of us goes to the better lot is known to no one, except the god" (Plato, 42).
Apology (Continued)
Plato
Socrates maintains that he has wronged no one and will not start now by wronging himself by offering a less evil penalty for his conviction that Meletus has (and is the customary practice of the court). Besides, he still isn't convinced death is a wrong at all. "Am I then to choose in preference to this something that I know very well to be an evil...?" (Plato, 39).
"The unexamined life is not worth living for men" (Plato, 39).
He sets his penalty at that which will not hurt him. Since he is poor he sets it at one mina of silver. But than sets it at 30 minas.
Socrates addresses those who sentenced him to death, stating that he would rather die after offering his manly and virtuous defense than survive by debasing himself and offering a defense that is full of emotive qualities.
He thinks it's wrong to avoid death in war or at trial at all costs.
It is easier to avoid death then wickedness: Socrates has caught by death but his accusers have been caught by wickedness. "They are condemned by truth to wickedness and injustice" (Plato, 40).
Socrates prophesies that by killing him they will not be able to live life unchallenged but will face more men like Socrates, and younger ones at that! They will test the men. "To escape such tests is neither possible nor good, but it is best and easiest not to discredit it others but to prepare oneself to be as good as possible" (Plato, 41).
Socrates tells the jurors who voted for his acquittal that death is not an evil; for if it was an evil the god who prevented Socrates from doing evil would have prevented him from saying that which got him sentenced to death.
Death is either nothingness or a relocating process where the soul goes to another place where he could converse and test good men and wise men.
"A good man cannot be harmed in life or in death, and that his affairs are not neglected by the gods" (Plato, 42).
The jurors who voted for death are only doing the will of the divine which is good; but, they are to be blamed because they intended harm.
Socrates' parting words to the jurymen who voted for acquittal: "I go to die, you go to live. Which of us goes to the better lot is known to no one, except the god" (Plato, 42).
Notes on Phaedo
(Originally written November 22, 2016 in Book 26)
Phaedo
Plato
(Death Scene)
A man can be confident in the state of his immortal soul as he approaches death if he has lived a life full of "moderation, righteousness, courage, freedom and truth"
Socrates does not care how they bury him for he will not be the corpse, but be somewhere else - a blessed place.
The man who delivered the poison to Socrates wept. Socrates remarked what a pleasant man his guard was.
All of Socrates' friends broke down when he took the poison, but Socrates chided them for being like the women he sent away.
Socrates' last words were a jest: "we owe a cock to Asclepius". Asclepius was the god who sick people offered a sacrifice of a cock to gain cures for ailments. Socrates was indicating that he owed Asclepius a cock for the curing of his ailment. Socrates was cured by death of his illness, life.
Phaedo
Plato
(Death Scene)
A man can be confident in the state of his immortal soul as he approaches death if he has lived a life full of "moderation, righteousness, courage, freedom and truth"
Socrates does not care how they bury him for he will not be the corpse, but be somewhere else - a blessed place.
The man who delivered the poison to Socrates wept. Socrates remarked what a pleasant man his guard was.
All of Socrates' friends broke down when he took the poison, but Socrates chided them for being like the women he sent away.
Socrates' last words were a jest: "we owe a cock to Asclepius". Asclepius was the god who sick people offered a sacrifice of a cock to gain cures for ailments. Socrates was indicating that he owed Asclepius a cock for the curing of his ailment. Socrates was cured by death of his illness, life.
Notes on Crito
(Originally written November 22, 2016 in Book 26)
Crito
Crito (Socrates' friend) is desperately trying to convince Socrates to escape to exile and save his life.
Crito claims Socrates' death will be a double misfortune for him. He will lose a friend that he cannot replace and people will think Crito did not want to spend the money to save him because no one will believe that Socrates wanted to die. Socrates chides him for coming for the opinion of the unruly masses.
Crito tells Socrates he can escape using his money or if he doesn't want to impose many others have money for him to escape.
Crito calls Socrates unjust for not saving his life when he can. He claims Socrates is betraying his sons.
Socrates says the truth remains the truth; the right thing remains the right thing, regardless of what the masses say.
One must never do wrong. Even if one is wronged, one must not wrong another for being wronged. Socrates says that the few who truly believe this will always be at odds with those who do not truly believe it.
Socrates then states the State is more important to a man than even his own father. As it is wrong to disobey one's ancestor, it is even more wrong to disobey one's country. "Is your wisdom such as not to realize that your country is to be honored more than your mother, your father, and all your ancestors, that it is to be revered and more sacred, and that it counts for more among the gods and sensible men, that you must worship it, yield to it, and placate its anger more than your fathers? You must either persuade it or obey its orders, and endure in silence whatever it instructs you to endure" (Plato, 51)
Socrates argues the State gives people two options: leave in peace with your possessions or stay and abide by the State's laws. As a citizen you can persuade the State; but, if it is not persuaded then one must abide by its laws and rulings. By stayion one enters voluntarily into an agreement with the State.
If Socrates were to flee now he would be doing wrong to Athens when he could have done right by choosing exile in court.
If Socrates flees unjustly he will justifty the unjust ruling of the court.
Socrates says by escaping he will be acting in a way to kill the laws of Athens and will thus recieve hostile reception whereever he goes that has laws, whether Greek or foreign city or even the underworld which has laws too.
Crito
Crito (Socrates' friend) is desperately trying to convince Socrates to escape to exile and save his life.
Crito claims Socrates' death will be a double misfortune for him. He will lose a friend that he cannot replace and people will think Crito did not want to spend the money to save him because no one will believe that Socrates wanted to die. Socrates chides him for coming for the opinion of the unruly masses.
Crito tells Socrates he can escape using his money or if he doesn't want to impose many others have money for him to escape.
Crito calls Socrates unjust for not saving his life when he can. He claims Socrates is betraying his sons.
Socrates says the truth remains the truth; the right thing remains the right thing, regardless of what the masses say.
One must never do wrong. Even if one is wronged, one must not wrong another for being wronged. Socrates says that the few who truly believe this will always be at odds with those who do not truly believe it.
Socrates then states the State is more important to a man than even his own father. As it is wrong to disobey one's ancestor, it is even more wrong to disobey one's country. "Is your wisdom such as not to realize that your country is to be honored more than your mother, your father, and all your ancestors, that it is to be revered and more sacred, and that it counts for more among the gods and sensible men, that you must worship it, yield to it, and placate its anger more than your fathers? You must either persuade it or obey its orders, and endure in silence whatever it instructs you to endure" (Plato, 51)
Socrates argues the State gives people two options: leave in peace with your possessions or stay and abide by the State's laws. As a citizen you can persuade the State; but, if it is not persuaded then one must abide by its laws and rulings. By stayion one enters voluntarily into an agreement with the State.
If Socrates were to flee now he would be doing wrong to Athens when he could have done right by choosing exile in court.
If Socrates flees unjustly he will justifty the unjust ruling of the court.
Socrates says by escaping he will be acting in a way to kill the laws of Athens and will thus recieve hostile reception whereever he goes that has laws, whether Greek or foreign city or even the underworld which has laws too.
Monday, November 21, 2016
Apology (A)
(Originally written November 21, 2016 in Book 26)
Apology
Plato
Athenian juries were large. The jury was 501 strong for the trial of Socrates. Athenian juries acted as judge and jury.
However, sentencing was done uniquely. The prosecutor would suggest one and the defendant (found guilty) would give a counter offer. "This procedure generally made for moderation on both sides" (Plato, 20).
Socrates condemns the sophistry of his accuser who tells beautiful lies. He implores the jury to judge content, not style: "concentrate your attention on whether what I say is just or not, for the excellence of a judge lies in this, as that of a speaker lies in telling the truth" (Plato, 21).
Socrates values truth above all else: "let the matter proceed as the god may wish, but I must obey the law and make my defense" (Plato, 22).
Socrates says the rumors about him, which are false, stem from a certain type wisdom. "Human wisdom, perhaps. It may be that I really possess this, while those whom I mentioned are wise with a wisdom more than human; else I cannot explain it, for whoever says I do is lying and speaks to slander me" (Plato, 24).
Socrates' wisdom was thus, "I thought that he appeared wise to many people and especially to himself, but he was not. I tried to show him that he thought himself wise, but that he was not. As a result he came to dislike me, and so did many bystanders. So I withdrew and thought to myself: 'I am wiser than this man; it is likely that neither of us knows anything worthwhile, but he thinks he knows something when he does not, whereas when I do not know, neither do I think I know; so I am likely to be wiser than he to this small extent, that I do not think I know what I do not know" (Plato, 25).
Socrates then went about showing those thought to be wise that they were not in fact, wise. Thus, he came to be disliked by many others.
Socrates learned that he was the wisest man from the oracle at Delphi. Thus, his actions to prove others unwise was a divine mandate. It was his "investigation in the service of the god".
In this investigation he found those highly revered to be the most lacking and those thought to be deficient to be the most knowledgeable.
"I soon realized that poets do not compose their poems with knowledge, but by some inborn talent and by inspiration, like seers and prophets" (Plato, 25).
Socrates claims the meaning of the oracle's pronouncement is that human wisdom is not worth much and that Socrates is wise to realize this.
Socrates says it is his mission to "come to the assistance of the god" and show men that they are not wise. This activity has attracted the youth who have luxury and leisure to imitate him and do so. This is why the accusers claim Socrates is corrupting the youth. They are merely angry at being proved unwise.
Socrates claims that the great anger in the men who accuse him is validation that he is telling the truth about what it is he has actually done.
Socrates, satisfied that he has answered the service changes against him from his old accusers goes on the attack and counter accuses Meletus. "You have made it sufficiently obvious, Meletus, that you have never had any concern for our youth; you show your indifference clearly; that you have given no thought to the subjects about which you bring me to trial" (Plato, 28).
Meletus contends that Socrates is an atheist, teaching that the sun and moon are not gods, but the sun is stone and the moon is earth. Socrates then ridicules him because this was the teaching of Anaxagoras of Clazomenae and these teachings can be learned for cheap from any book store.
He pins Meletus into a corner showing that he accuses Socrates of both being an atheist and believing and teaching a new spiritual teaching. "You must have made this deposition, Meletus, either to test us or because you were at a loss to find any true wrongdoing of which to accuse me" (Plato, 30).
Socrates is satisfied with his defense against Meletus at this point; but, he recognizes his unpopularity on account of embarassing the self-proclaimed wise of Athens. "I am very unpopular with many people. This will be my undoing, if I am undone, not Meletus..." (Plato, 31).
Despite his knowledge of his unpopularity Socrates is undeterred: "This [slander] has destroyed many other good men and will, I think, continue to do so. There is no danger that it will stop with me" (Plato, 31).
Socrates claims doing right actions is the only thing that matters, not the danger or harm that might come about from acting rightly.
"To fear death, gentlemen, is no other than to think oneself wise when one is not, to think one knows what one does not know. No one knows whether death may not be the greatest of all blessings for a man, yet men fear it as if they know that it is the greatest of evil" (Plato, 31).
Wickedness - to do wrong, to disobey one's superior, whether he be god or man.
Socrates says it is better to care for the best possible state of one's soul rather than to care for wealth or bodily health.
"Wealth does not bring about excellence, but excellence makes wealth and everything else good for me, both individuality and collectively" (Plato, 33).
Socrates again bashes Meletus claiming that a better man (Socrates) cannot be harmed by a lesser. True, Socrates may die because of Meletus' charge but Meletus will ultimately be harmed by this transaction, by executing a man unjustly.
"I believe the god has placed me in the city. I never cease to rouse each and every one of you, to persuade and reproach you all day long and everywhere I find myself in your company" (Plato, 33).
Socrates states his death will do more harm to the city because he is there as a father or elder brother "to persuade you to care for virtue" (Plato, 34).
Socrates claims that because he does not charge for his service and lives in poverty proves his good intentions.
"A man who really fights for justice must lead a private, not public, life if he is to survive for even a short time" (Plato, 34).
"Death is something I couldn't care less about, but my whole concern is not to do anything unjust or impious" (Plato, 35).
Socrates utters that he doesn't bring his sons to trial because he does not want to be acquitted because of pity. That would be both shameful to him and to the jury.
Once convicted Socrates again states what he has done he had done to fulfill a purpose to teach men to care more for virtue then worldly/bodily possessions. But here he equates virtue with happiness: "I make you be happy".
He counters Meletus' death sentence with his sentence: five meals in the Prytaneum.
Apology
Plato
Athenian juries were large. The jury was 501 strong for the trial of Socrates. Athenian juries acted as judge and jury.
However, sentencing was done uniquely. The prosecutor would suggest one and the defendant (found guilty) would give a counter offer. "This procedure generally made for moderation on both sides" (Plato, 20).
Socrates condemns the sophistry of his accuser who tells beautiful lies. He implores the jury to judge content, not style: "concentrate your attention on whether what I say is just or not, for the excellence of a judge lies in this, as that of a speaker lies in telling the truth" (Plato, 21).
Socrates values truth above all else: "let the matter proceed as the god may wish, but I must obey the law and make my defense" (Plato, 22).
Socrates says the rumors about him, which are false, stem from a certain type wisdom. "Human wisdom, perhaps. It may be that I really possess this, while those whom I mentioned are wise with a wisdom more than human; else I cannot explain it, for whoever says I do is lying and speaks to slander me" (Plato, 24).
Socrates' wisdom was thus, "I thought that he appeared wise to many people and especially to himself, but he was not. I tried to show him that he thought himself wise, but that he was not. As a result he came to dislike me, and so did many bystanders. So I withdrew and thought to myself: 'I am wiser than this man; it is likely that neither of us knows anything worthwhile, but he thinks he knows something when he does not, whereas when I do not know, neither do I think I know; so I am likely to be wiser than he to this small extent, that I do not think I know what I do not know" (Plato, 25).
Socrates then went about showing those thought to be wise that they were not in fact, wise. Thus, he came to be disliked by many others.
Socrates learned that he was the wisest man from the oracle at Delphi. Thus, his actions to prove others unwise was a divine mandate. It was his "investigation in the service of the god".
In this investigation he found those highly revered to be the most lacking and those thought to be deficient to be the most knowledgeable.
"I soon realized that poets do not compose their poems with knowledge, but by some inborn talent and by inspiration, like seers and prophets" (Plato, 25).
Socrates claims the meaning of the oracle's pronouncement is that human wisdom is not worth much and that Socrates is wise to realize this.
Socrates says it is his mission to "come to the assistance of the god" and show men that they are not wise. This activity has attracted the youth who have luxury and leisure to imitate him and do so. This is why the accusers claim Socrates is corrupting the youth. They are merely angry at being proved unwise.
Socrates claims that the great anger in the men who accuse him is validation that he is telling the truth about what it is he has actually done.
Socrates, satisfied that he has answered the service changes against him from his old accusers goes on the attack and counter accuses Meletus. "You have made it sufficiently obvious, Meletus, that you have never had any concern for our youth; you show your indifference clearly; that you have given no thought to the subjects about which you bring me to trial" (Plato, 28).
Meletus contends that Socrates is an atheist, teaching that the sun and moon are not gods, but the sun is stone and the moon is earth. Socrates then ridicules him because this was the teaching of Anaxagoras of Clazomenae and these teachings can be learned for cheap from any book store.
He pins Meletus into a corner showing that he accuses Socrates of both being an atheist and believing and teaching a new spiritual teaching. "You must have made this deposition, Meletus, either to test us or because you were at a loss to find any true wrongdoing of which to accuse me" (Plato, 30).
Socrates is satisfied with his defense against Meletus at this point; but, he recognizes his unpopularity on account of embarassing the self-proclaimed wise of Athens. "I am very unpopular with many people. This will be my undoing, if I am undone, not Meletus..." (Plato, 31).
Despite his knowledge of his unpopularity Socrates is undeterred: "This [slander] has destroyed many other good men and will, I think, continue to do so. There is no danger that it will stop with me" (Plato, 31).
Socrates claims doing right actions is the only thing that matters, not the danger or harm that might come about from acting rightly.
"To fear death, gentlemen, is no other than to think oneself wise when one is not, to think one knows what one does not know. No one knows whether death may not be the greatest of all blessings for a man, yet men fear it as if they know that it is the greatest of evil" (Plato, 31).
Wickedness - to do wrong, to disobey one's superior, whether he be god or man.
Socrates says it is better to care for the best possible state of one's soul rather than to care for wealth or bodily health.
"Wealth does not bring about excellence, but excellence makes wealth and everything else good for me, both individuality and collectively" (Plato, 33).
Socrates again bashes Meletus claiming that a better man (Socrates) cannot be harmed by a lesser. True, Socrates may die because of Meletus' charge but Meletus will ultimately be harmed by this transaction, by executing a man unjustly.
"I believe the god has placed me in the city. I never cease to rouse each and every one of you, to persuade and reproach you all day long and everywhere I find myself in your company" (Plato, 33).
Socrates states his death will do more harm to the city because he is there as a father or elder brother "to persuade you to care for virtue" (Plato, 34).
Socrates claims that because he does not charge for his service and lives in poverty proves his good intentions.
"A man who really fights for justice must lead a private, not public, life if he is to survive for even a short time" (Plato, 34).
"Death is something I couldn't care less about, but my whole concern is not to do anything unjust or impious" (Plato, 35).
Socrates utters that he doesn't bring his sons to trial because he does not want to be acquitted because of pity. That would be both shameful to him and to the jury.
Once convicted Socrates again states what he has done he had done to fulfill a purpose to teach men to care more for virtue then worldly/bodily possessions. But here he equates virtue with happiness: "I make you be happy".
He counters Meletus' death sentence with his sentence: five meals in the Prytaneum.
Wednesday, November 16, 2016
Euthyphro
(Originally written November 16, 2016 in Book 26)
The Trial and Death of Socrates
3rd Edition
Plato
Hackett, 2000
Introduction
Socrates was 70 in 399 BC, the date of his trial and execultion.
- Lived through the Periclean age of Athens at its pinnacle of power
- But saw the Peloponnesian War and the defeat of Athens in 404 BC
Taught philosophy like a street preacher, exposing the ignorance of any self-proclaimed wise men
Euthyphro
This dialogue concerns the nature of piety. It is one of Socrates' searches for the universal definition of an ethical term.
Euthyphro appears to be a professional priest who "considers himself an expert on ritual and on piety generally, and, it seems, is generally so considered" (Plato, 1).
Meletus has indicted Socrates; but, of what, Euthyphro asks: "Strange things". Socrates is a maker of gods (he worships these new gods while neglecting belief in the old ones).
Euthyphro figures Meletus has brought the charge out of envy of Socrates.
Eurthyphro is prosecuting his father for murder. He must do it and distance himself from his father because "the pollution is the same if you knowingly keep company with such a man and do not cleanse yourself and him by bringing him to justice" (Plato, 4).
The notion of bringing one to justice as a way to cleanse the wrong-doer is an interesting one.
Euthyphro has a high view of himself: "I should be of no use, Socrates, and Euthyphro would not be superior to the majority of men, if I did not have accurate knowledge of all such things" (Plato, 5).
All such things: what is pious and what is pious.
Socrates: What is pious?
To prosecute the wrong-doer, whether he is a relative or a stranger is the pious. To not prosecute is impious.
Euthyphro claims his prosecution of his father is pious because Zeus prosecuted his father piously.
Socrates doesn't accept this initial definition because it is just one description of one pious action.
"What is dear to the gods is pious; what is not is impious" (Plato, 7).
Socrates then points out that the gods are, at various times, at war with one another so a thing can be both god-loved and god-hated. Thus, a thing can be both pious and impious.
Socrates points out that Euthyphro's prosecution may be pleasing to Zeus but displeasing to Cronus and Uranus.
Euthyphro agrees to a narrowing definition of piety and its opposite: "the pious is what all the gods love, and the opposite, what all gods hate, is the impious" (Plato, 11).
Euthyphro - "the godly and pious is the part of the just that is concerned with the care of the gods, while that concerned with the care of men is the remaining part of justice" (Plato, 15).
The Trial and Death of Socrates
3rd Edition
Plato
Hackett, 2000
Introduction
Socrates was 70 in 399 BC, the date of his trial and execultion.
- Lived through the Periclean age of Athens at its pinnacle of power
- But saw the Peloponnesian War and the defeat of Athens in 404 BC
Taught philosophy like a street preacher, exposing the ignorance of any self-proclaimed wise men
Euthyphro
This dialogue concerns the nature of piety. It is one of Socrates' searches for the universal definition of an ethical term.
Euthyphro appears to be a professional priest who "considers himself an expert on ritual and on piety generally, and, it seems, is generally so considered" (Plato, 1).
Meletus has indicted Socrates; but, of what, Euthyphro asks: "Strange things". Socrates is a maker of gods (he worships these new gods while neglecting belief in the old ones).
Euthyphro figures Meletus has brought the charge out of envy of Socrates.
Eurthyphro is prosecuting his father for murder. He must do it and distance himself from his father because "the pollution is the same if you knowingly keep company with such a man and do not cleanse yourself and him by bringing him to justice" (Plato, 4).
The notion of bringing one to justice as a way to cleanse the wrong-doer is an interesting one.
Euthyphro has a high view of himself: "I should be of no use, Socrates, and Euthyphro would not be superior to the majority of men, if I did not have accurate knowledge of all such things" (Plato, 5).
All such things: what is pious and what is pious.
Socrates: What is pious?
To prosecute the wrong-doer, whether he is a relative or a stranger is the pious. To not prosecute is impious.
Euthyphro claims his prosecution of his father is pious because Zeus prosecuted his father piously.
Socrates doesn't accept this initial definition because it is just one description of one pious action.
"What is dear to the gods is pious; what is not is impious" (Plato, 7).
Socrates then points out that the gods are, at various times, at war with one another so a thing can be both god-loved and god-hated. Thus, a thing can be both pious and impious.
Socrates points out that Euthyphro's prosecution may be pleasing to Zeus but displeasing to Cronus and Uranus.
Euthyphro agrees to a narrowing definition of piety and its opposite: "the pious is what all the gods love, and the opposite, what all gods hate, is the impious" (Plato, 11).
Euthyphro - "the godly and pious is the part of the just that is concerned with the care of the gods, while that concerned with the care of men is the remaining part of justice" (Plato, 15).
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